Bill Moyers on Pakistan and Afghanistan

Shahan Mufti (Pakistani journalist) and Juan Cole on Bill Moyers last night!! Watch it here.

I am thoroughly convinced that we need to stay as far as possible from Pakistan, for the good of that state and the good of Pakistan - neither the government nor the population like the Taliban, they will defeat them. Mufti and Cole state unequivocally that it is the US presence there that gives the Taliban a rallying call; the US presence makes their numbers grow and gives them local support. (This argument might apply to Afghanistan as well, however, there are major differences, for example, Afghanistan does not have as coherent of an army as Pakistan does, and the Taliban is more significant there.)

The other most interesting point they make concerns India. The US consistently fails to realize and acknowledge that all Pakistan cares about is India. They fears currently had grown, not fallen, because of India's new close relationship with Afghanistan, which makes Pakistan very, very nervous.

The show ends with a powerful display of Pakistani society: when the Chief Justice Iftikar Chaudry was reinstated, thousands of people gathered outside his house, you had Islamists shouting Allah Akbar next to students playing western sounding music on the guitar guitar, and the justice party singing nationalist songs.

Key points:

- no journalists there
- Taliban label is incorrect for those in Pakistan really
- we're talking only about 4,000 'Taliban' fighters, not mainstream, Pakistan army has 550,000
- Juan Cole thinks Pakistan should have sent in special ops teams not army
- that they sent in the army was not the correct reaction, it was disproportionate
- Pakistan, remember, is huge state of 165 million, this is a province of 3 million
- All this hub bub about these guys reaching the nuclear weapons is ridiculous
- no one is ever going to 'control' the FATA region, so that goal is unrealistic, Pakistan needs to work with people there (NOT like they did in Swat though)
- The US presence is what gives the Taliban a rallying call; US presence makes their numbers group and leading locals to support them
- Pakistanis don't even like the Taliban - many many polls have shown this
- Here is a report on a Gallup poll that shows that the people support the military kicking out the Taliban
- All political parties (Islamic, Nationalist) and women (who are well integrated into the system) are speaking out against Taliban
- Pakistanis are NOT religious conservatives, they are moderate and like a secular state, there is a strong well educated middle class, if you know Pakistan, you know the Taliban are far from even a long shot
- Pakistan sees India as the real threat - especially because of India's new strong relationship with Afghanistan, we must bring Kashmir into the fold.